Topic: Time to call it a day?

I think, with the drop of activity here, it is time to wind Phoenix Roleplaying up. Precisely four sims have had any posts in them in the past month and only one of them, Kestrel, can be deemed to be active at a satisfactory level.

We have had seven great years here (and more than that at AJJE), but to be honest, it's pretty much over now. Phoenix 2.0 never showed up and it's too late for it to make any real difference.

I propose that Phoenix Roleplaying be closed and archived, with Sim Leaders free to take their sims elsewhere.

Re: Time to call it a day?

I agree with Silent, as posting on most sims is non-existent or incredibly slow.  Please archive the Kestrel sim, as we may come back again someday ... who knows?  Like Silent, it's been 12 years for me since we started all this in AJJE and continued on in Phoenix.  Hope everyone enjoyed the ride!  God bless and keep you all.

- Mike Palmer

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Re: Time to call it a day?

Really? A bare three weeks after an election where the core drive was "how do we get more members and reinvigorate things" there's a call to throw in the towel? Let's at least try and do things first. Not to mention the part where the Prinz on PARS is pretty healthy in its activity as well.

Re: Time to call it a day?

I unfortunately have to agree with Silent and Mike. Other than Kestrel, the last post was made by myself in The Drake Club on the 27th of July, almost a month ago. We had one person show up to say, "Hi!" and a bunch of spambots as our only other activity.

There's no new sims, and I honestly was going to shut down the newsletter this month due to the only news being two people elected to office along with the deaths of Adam West, Roger Moore and now Krista Backman. I can't see doing any future issues, as there's no longer anything to report.

Re: Time to call it a day?

I wholeheartedly disagree with this proposal and  I am in agreement with Euan. He and I have a continuous chat where we discuss possible ways to revitalize the site, but such cannot be done overnight. Everyone is also forgetting about our PARS section where the Prinz still has healthy posting, as Euan has already mentioned.

Wanna know what part of the problem is? No one wants to help or is agreeable to change. Change is not a bad thing and could be greatly beneficial to our site.

I have already been looking over our tremendously long rules, working on a reworking of them. As well as the Government...it is too much for our site.

As Phoenix stands at the moment, we cannot compete with advertising as other sites do since we do not allow guest posting. This also limits us in advertising Phoenix on resource sites such as Caution, Shine, RPG Initiative, or RPG Directory....just to name a few. So if we cannot do that, how can we get new members, new players? Get traffic?

There are tons and tons of players out there floating around the internet looking for a home.

I have pointed numerous people towards Phoenix over the past few years, rp friends from other sites, but they get confused at our structure.

Newsletter? We don't need it. yes, it was nice when we were bigger, but attention needs to be elsewhere.

If you want to close your sim(s), leave and take them elsewhere, fine. It is one of the great things about Phoenix Roleplaying....Sim Leaders own their sims and can do such.

But as I see it we have a few choices:

A: Tuck our tails between our legs and close. (which cannot be done without giving PARS members a voice)
B: Move over to PARS
C: Revitalize, Rebrand, and Restructure
D: Move hosts and revitalize
E: Martial Law (which may include some of the above)


I requested a site review a week or so ago, for anyone who would like to read:

https://rpginitiative.com/topic/7332-ph … ment=51061

Re: Time to call it a day?

Misty, I will address each of your paragraphs in turn.

1. Why are you discussing this solely with Euan? He's not the only member here. I am always available for any discussion by email. This isn't a dictatorship.

2. Not true. I am perfectly willing to help and open to the right sort of change.

3. Then where is the work and why isn't this being discussed with members?

4. Then allow guest posting if that is doable on this site as is. If not, then move us to a platform that can.

5. Agree entirely.

6. Agree, it can be confusing.

7. Then please use the blog that I run instead. I have made countless requests for people to provide me material and I get nada pretty much every time.

8. I don't want to leave; but this site is currently on life support.

9. I don't want to go back to PARS, it wasn't a great system. C and D are good ideas. I would back E for a six month period.

10. The review talks a lot of sense; we have a lot of great content, but it is awfully hard to find.

I do not want this site to die, but we need to start taking serious action and in short order. I am willing to assist, but I cannot be the only one who does this.

Silent Hunter

Last edited by Silent Hunter (2017-08-21 11:23:55)

Re: Time to call it a day?

I still check this site every week to see if any new sims are posted, but I to am not expecting much as we don't have the regulars who come here and actually post.

I'm still around to be in any sims (granted, that are within a realm I'm interested in) and am willing to help in some respects as well to see it revived.

Re: Time to call it a day?

I'm not staff, just a player in one game.
But one can talk about reorganization or doing away with all the complex rules and government (totally agree with you on that one, Misty in fact that crap cost this site the one game that did have lots of posts but too late now on that) BUT it all comes down to one thing IMHO:

Lack of IC posts!

As long as people do not post in character for the games they are in, it doesn't matter if you advertise more or allow guests - stories go nowhere and even the best game premise matters not.

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Re: Time to call it a day?

Yes, gfictional you are right in that. (I will say that I left the Kestrel because even though I could keep up with the 3 day posting rule, I could not keep up with how fast the other players were moving the story. So to keep from holding the game up, I bowed out. As for the rest of the games here on the forum? None but Greenleaf is appealing to me.)

But IC posts aren't the only thing that make a potential member join a site.

Re: Time to call it a day?

May I ask why you haven't posted in Greenleaf since 20 October last year then?

IC activity is a vital part of a site; you don't join a dead site no matter how pretty looking.

Edit: I see Misty does post in Prinz Eugen. My apologies.

Last edited by Silent Hunter (2017-08-25 06:23:25)

Re: Time to call it a day?

I hate to see this, I guess we should park my Atlantis sim as well , Folks are dropping off the site like flies
Hopefully streamlining will help
I guess second life will have to do and world of tanks
Going to miss the fun here :>(

James / Atlantis Sim Owner

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Re: Time to call it a day?

PARS is as much a part of our roleplaying community as the forum. Politics just take place on the forum.

Re: Time to call it a day?

I think gfictional really has the thrust of it. Politics intruding on gameplay was the reason Phoenix was founded in the first place, with strong democracy being our choice to ensure if that happened again the players were empowered to remove the problem. So let's look at what's getting in the way of gameplay now and get rid of it. We "rose from the ashes" when we started, nothing stopping us from doing so again if we're prepared to really turn 180 on things.

Re: Time to call it a day?

What is getting in the way of gameplay is quite simple. People are not posting.

Re: Time to call it a day?

Yes, that is the gist of it. Go back and look at the games that were currently running. Other than Mike's Kestrel (which he had to harp on people - yep, even me on occasion - to post within his prescribed rules) nothing was going on. BTW, I applauded his posting rules, he was really trying to keep an active rpg on here.
note: I did not even look at PARS before writing this. Misty did ask me to join a game there once but not much was happening. I had enough rpgs on my plate at the time, still do. Active games with players who post...a lot.

I did show this site to a few rpg friends of mine and you know what they always looked at? Posting rates, how active are the games as they did not want to waste their time with dragging or even dead games. They would reply back to me that nothing is going on. Well, other than Kestrel. None of them mentioned the setup was odd or whatever. None of them mentioned elections and government stuff. OK, not quite true, one of them did get a laugh out of the un-opposed election saying 'what was the point of even bothering".

Last edited by gfictional (2017-08-25 13:26:56)

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Re: Time to call it a day?

Lack of active postings is indeed the problem at Phoenix.  We always come back to this sticking point: how can the site gain new players and keep its established players if there is no active gaming going on?

Thank you gfictional for your kind endorsements.  The government and operations of Phoenix were designed so that no one could hijack the site like they did in AJJE.  As long as games are active and players busy posting, the governance of Phoenix doesn't come into play.

Remember when Area 88 started up?  Man that sim went nuts with players posting on the first mission to defend the base.  It was flying along (no pun intended) and had to be reined back in because some player(s) found the plot line advanced so fast that they couldn't keep up when posting daily.  The players were excited and enthusiastic, and the game was energized.  That's the kind of play that will keep a sim active and growing.  Today that same site has some players posting once a month, and it's damned near impossible to maintain enthusiasm and more simply, player involvement, when postings are that few and far between.

Seems I'm beating a dead horse here, folks.  If the site wants to stay alive and viable, then we must have active games to keep players involved.

- Mike

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Re: Time to call it a day?

Then how do we get there? Chicken and egg - if people look to join only active sites, the pool eternally shrinks. But we know new sites start and people post. So how do we generate activity so that people are interested in joining to sustain it?

Re: Time to call it a day?

First, I believe you need to get committed GMs for sims who will actively engage players and maintain an active story.  If a GM is too busy to run a game, then that sim is doomed to fall into the death spiral we now see in most Phoenix sims.  We seem to be down to bare bones in "active" sims.

My last active post in the Greenleaf Skyplex sim was 2/25/2017, with no GM posts afterwards in response.  Misty made a post on the sim dated 6/3/2017 asking anyone still interested to post their character bio, but that was the last post by Mgt.  There were no responses.

In Area 88, this sim was a bit better, with my player character posting on 6/30/2017 being answered by SilverRush on 8/10/2017, almost a month and a half between posts.  The last post by the GM which started that particular plot thread was 6/24/2017, and we are currently on 8/25/2017.

How can you run an active sim and maintain any kind of player interest, much less attracting new characters to a sim and the site, when there is such a huge gap between posts?

We had a brief period of several new sim starts which got everyone developing and posting characters, which gave me hope, but then it seemed that these new sims were but a flash in the pan, as character and GM postings dried up quickly.

- Mike

Last edited by Mike Palmer (2017-08-25 20:53:16)

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Re: Time to call it a day?

Mike Palmer wrote:

found the plot line advanced so fast that they couldn't keep up when posting daily

- Mike

That was basically my reason for leaving the Kestrel, Mike. Loved the sim and the character, but there was not way for me to keep up.

I would propose giving current open sims a gander (including the Kestrel since it was active), and seeing what generates the most interest among our active player base (using the auto generated list the EVC uses for voting purposes would be a start). Then we could start with 1 or 2 sims and build activity.

Re: Time to call it a day?

Knock knock... may I come in? *looks around cautiously*

Even if I am no longer an active member of Phoenix, I often return here to read the old stories, and hoping to find new ones.

I can only speak for myself, but in my case the reasons for leaving were the same ones that you are discussing now.
As a GM, I spent lots of time trying to build interesting stories, and probably I failed, because in each case after a first enthusiastic burst, activity quickly dropped below acceptable values.
As a player, the pace of most stories was so slow that I quickly was bored, and Misha's departure was the final blow.

The truth is, the concept of role-play through a forum is SLOW: a sim can last years, and not many players have the time and the strength to invest a sizeable chunk of life in it. Today there are much faster (even if somehow shallower) alternatives (I know friends who play through Whatsapp or Telegram, for example) and probably they are more attractive, especially for younger people.

Sorry for the intrusion. You are searching for solutions and I have none. But I still read you and I have all of you in my heart. I would like to be able to help somehow.

Giorgio

"My faith protects me. My Kevlar helps" - (Jim Butcher)

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Re: Time to call it a day?

The challenging issue is when you GM a sim create a situation and no one responds to it, Such as the Atlantis with Reavers showing up at the space port
Tried to generate some excitement and get things rolling along but to no avail, we need players thats what we need

James / Atlantis sim owner

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Re: Time to call it a day?

So we need GMs and we need players, and all of it in the service of activity. That sounds like something everyone agrees on; how do we find these folks? How do we create that activity for them to sustain?

Re: Time to call it a day?

Misty Diamond wrote:
Mike Palmer wrote:

found the plot line advanced so fast that they couldn't keep up when posting daily

- Mike

That was basically my reason for leaving the Kestrel, Mike. Loved the sim and the character, but there was not way for me to keep up.

I would propose giving current open sims a gander (including the Kestrel since it was active), and seeing what generates the most interest among our active player base (using the auto generated list the EVC uses for voting purposes would be a start). Then we could start with 1 or 2 sims and build activity.

If you want to put something together for me to send out via Ballotbin, I can most certainly do that.

Re: Time to call it a day?

Euan Reid wrote:

So we need GMs and we need players, and all of it in the service of activity. That sounds like something everyone agrees on; how do we find these folks? How do we create that activity for them to sustain?

I would argue that it starts with the players already here creating that activity. Posting leads to posting.

Re: Time to call it a day?

Euan Reid wrote:

So we need GMs and we need players, and all of it in the service of activity. That sounds like something everyone agrees on; how do we find these folks? How do we create that activity for them to sustain?


The GM issue, has been a long standing issue. I would also propose we try having some games that are character driven, allowing for both types (GM as well and Character driven).

How do we find folks? Other than resource forums and advertising, I have no idea.

How do we create that activity for them to sustain? We need activity, good stories, characters, and plots.

Currently we have:

Greenleaf (?)
Atlantis
Kestrel (yes or no, Mike?)
Prinz Eugen (PARS)
Akers Bluff (PARS)

Area 88: Crimson Skies
Covert-81

Dark Matter: Alycidon
Dark Matter: Warspite

The Drake Club


How many for the forum? There are two currently open on PARS, although only the Prinz has a decent player base and is active.