Re: SimEnc

http://www.simmingleague.com/wiki/index … ns/IndyFan (which itemises Charles' contribution to SimEnc before he was blocked)

and

http://www.simmingleague.com/wiki/index … :BlockList (which shows the list of blockees, all of which are for spamming except Charles, whose ban is for "Failure to comply with SimEnc guidelines", though no specifics or evidence is referred to)

Ash

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Re: SimEnc

Ash Leighton Plom wrote:

http://www.simmingleague.com/wiki/index … :BlockList (which shows the list of blockees, all of which are for spamming except Charles, whose ban is for "Failure to comply with SimEnc guidelines", though no specifics or evidence is referred to)

Ash

Reminds me of the time we lost our host back when...  mad

~Robert

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Re: SimEnc

RLongtin wrote:

Reminds me of the time we lost our host back when...  mad

~Robert

Yeah, remember that? *sighs as he stares off into space in remembrance*

Ah, good times.

lol

-Jason

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Re: SimEnc

Huh. SimEnc today reversed the ban, three months to the day they published it, citing a "miscommunication".

However, Charles Star apparently remains unsatisfied, on the grounds that he feels there was no miscommunication - SimEnc banned him on 20th December last year for "Failure to comply with SimEnc guidelines", but they never demonstrated what guideline he had failed to comply with, and they didn't engage with his persistent attempts to evidence that he had not broken any of their guidelines and didn't plan to break any of their guidelines.

Charles actually quotes Chas Hammer as saying, on December 16th, "You are free to copy and use elsewhere for your own purposes any material you published to SimEnc" in reply to Charles saying "I will not copy content directly from SimEnc to my site where I was not the main writer", but SimEnc then went ahead and banned him four days later saying "Your expressed intent [to post on his own wiki articles that Charles himself had written] constitutes a gross violation of copyright laws", despite having explicitly advised him only four days earlier that they didn't view this as a violation, affirming "You are free to copy and use elsewhere for your own purposes any material you published to SimEnc".

If I understand correctly, Charles' opinion is that their banning of him was political, and as it has backfired against them, with everyone now talking about the SimEnc board acting arbitrarily and authoritarian, versus Charles planning a new wiki which will be inclusive and community-led, SimEnc have realised their 'tactical error' and are trying to disown it, without taking responsibility for any wrongdoing themselves, eg for mistreating Charles. So yeah, I get that he remains aggrieved.

Ash

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Re: SimEnc

You know, this actually reminds me of when Alex Verdusco offered some of us (not me!) "amnesty" after he banned us, saying we could be "forgiven" and return to AJJE if we promised to stop insisting that things be done fairly, as if we'd been in the wrong for fighting for justice and he could forgive us for that if we reformed and became nice and quietly obedient to him, the unelected oligarchic Board of Founders, and their appointed President, when they realised about 30 us were actually leaving, many from positions central to the site and club community.

Ash

Last edited by Ash Leighton Plom (2013-03-20 19:50:19)

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Re: SimEnc

It's obviously not a "miscommunication" unless they mean internally within themselves, but they failed to indicate where they felt the blame for this was which I think looks like a 'saving face' sort of empty apology. But clearly there are problems with the site administration if they banned him, gave a reason, and then lifted the ban because of "clarification" as they called it which was, in fact, "repetition" - again, this looks like a 'saving face' moment for them, avoiding taking the blame. Really I think their handling of the situation and their inability to accept blame for how things went overall just makes them look really bad.

I absolutely agree that this brings back memories from our leaving the old country. A lot of similarities there...

~Robert

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Re: SimEnc

Ash Leighton Plom wrote:

You know, this actually reminds me of when Alex Verdusco offered some of us (not me!) "amnesty" after he banned us

Well, I was never banned (I personally asked Alex to remove me from the site) but Alex said to me in an attempt to dissuade me from leaving AJJE: "I foresee you being a great future leader in AJJE." You all obviously know how that turned out (my response was the formal request to remove me from the site as mentioned above).

Interestingly enough though, I had to read back through the few e-mails I received from Alex before the end to find that quote and discovered that what originally gave me the idea for the Contender was actually Gaelan Coffin who had, in passing, mentioned that he thought "AJJE needs an ombudsman". An ombudsman is precisely what the "Contender" is:

wikipedia.org wrote:

An ombudsman is an official, usually appointed by the government or by parliament but with a significant degree of independence, who is charged with representing the interests of the public by investigating and addressing complaints of maladministration or violation of rights.

I actually did not remember Gaelan to be the source when I put forward the suggestion for the Contender as it had been several months since Gaelan put that word out there (which I had never previously heard) that made me briefly intrigued by the notion of such a position. Kudos to Gaelan on a really great idea.  big_smile

~Robert

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Re: SimEnc

While there are similarities between this and the Schism, there are differences. Charles Star was the de facto creator of most of the content on SimEnc and its board chief until he resigned. He then got rather unhappy about a change of policy regarding editing that would affect his work in particular and had a rather public falling out of the matter.

We did not go on about the 12,000 + articles we'd created for a site in two public editorials for a start. This said, the pretext for the ban wasn't justifiable, more an excuse for SimEnc to get rid of an irritant.

- Silent

Re: SimEnc

http://rpg-directory.com/threads/how-wo … ond.53239/

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Re: SimEnc


Huh.

I agree with Silent's summary.

It all does bring back shudders from what happened to us though, doesn't it.

I'm so grateful for this community, where I trust that democracy, and friendship, protects us.

~Deb

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Re: SimEnc

I'd say we (Phoenix) now have a legitimate complaint with SimEnc too:

http://www.simmingleague.com/wiki/index … Convention

http://www.simmingleague.com/wiki/index … Convention

They awarded SciWorld '13 to a club without opening it up to the community to submit bids (as is the custom)... even after Silent asked them about it back in September!

Ash

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Re: SimEnc

That's a load of old bollocks.

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Re: SimEnc

Charles also had posted about it back in Sept (from http://www.simmingleague.com/wiki/index … onvention):

When will the application to host SciWorld '13 be posted? -IndyFan 06:36, 28 September 2012 (PDT)

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Re: SimEnc

Although according to that article, it was previously overseen by The Simming League, with Ongoing Worlds taking it over as sponsor when TSL dissolved. The only post about this upcoming one came a few days ago:

http://www.ongoingworlds.com/blog/2013/ … ming-soon/

I don't see anywhere any discussion about the process of choosing the host.

-Jason

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Re: SimEnc

They discussed it amongst the SimEnc board members, as Chas Hammer told me.

Re: SimEnc

Oh, well that's alright then.

</sarcasm>

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Re: SimEnc

*stands at Jason's shoulder doing the 'snap' face*

Ash

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Re: SimEnc

Okay, news on this. The delay with the new wiki is essentially because they're negotiating with SimEnc to agree not to take legal action. I've been CCd in on the negotiations, so I will let you all know what develops.

Ash

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Re: SimEnc

The negotiations changed focus recently when SimEnc scrapped their citations and SME policies; two of the key objections Charles had to SimEnc's authoritarian and non-collaborative direction which led to him getting banned. With those stumbling blocks gone, Chas (Director of SimEnc) initiated negotiations with Charles to restore him to SimEnc and prevent the breakaway wiki.

Personally, I'm really very encouraged to see a way forwards for one simming wiki, rather than the communities efforts being split between two separate wikis (which might potentially fight legal action against each other from time to time, spending more energy).

Essentially, SimEnc are open to offering Charles an option Phoenix's first members were never offered by AJJE. Whereas Alex V very 'graciously' offered to 'pardon' us for all those rules we didn't break, Chas is talking with Charles about their respective visions for the wiki and discussing how they can go forwards together. I am glad to see we may be able to progress in the direction of reunification.

It is, however, far from a done deal. Charles is not the kind of man to become compromised in his principles, which I value and respect, so if Chas fails to convince Charles that SimEnc can genuinely be an open source community wiki, Charles will set up such a resource elsewhere. Also, Charles is speaking for a broader group of stakeholders now, and not just his own interests. That complicates discussions by adding extra terms to the table which other stakeholders are bringing forwards that Charles may not have insisted on on his own.

So yeah, still quite an uncertain future. But either way, there will be an open source community led wiki at the end of it covering the online rp community, either SimEnc reformed, or a new wiki started by Charles Star.

Ash

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Re: SimEnc

Okay, so the news on this now is that the group Charles assembled to create a new wiki back when SimEnc were not at all cooperative is currently divided over whether to try to reform SimEnc or refuse to give them another chance/be lured back into the fold only to be abused again. Emotions ran high, with at least one member stating their intention to leave purely because of Charles' willingness to work with Chas, after everything that has happened.

Charles' attempt to resolve the conflicting opinions within his group is to submit an ultimatum to Chas and the SimEnc leadership: stand aside and hand SimEnc over to the community, or the split goes ahead.

I don't suppose SimEnc can accept those terms, so I expect there will be a competing wiki soon, which unlike SimEnc is a genuine collaborative open source community wiki.

Ash

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Re: SimEnc

Thanks for keeping us informed Ash. I can see both sides (those wanting to work with SimEnc, and those not willing to risk it). It's a messy situation, for sure.

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Re: SimEnc

Same here. I personally lean towards trying to reform SimEnc rather than splitting the community's efforts. I think I said somewhere already, it's a bit like when Phoenix split from AJJE, if their leadership had come to us exiles and said "actually on reflection we'd like to reform." AJJE never gave us that chance, instead essentially saying "no one championing fairness and democracy is welcome here." But anyway, the SimEnc situation is out of my hands. I've expressed my preference to Charles, but then so have others, and he's taking the course he is to try and reconcile the two extremes.

I'll let you know how SimEnc respond.

Ash

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Re: SimEnc

Those opposed do have a point though, in that just returning to SimEnc doesn't guarantee the administration won't pull the same thing later down the road.

It would be akin to AJJE saying, "Oh, yeah, our bad. Let's be friends and we'll reform and whatnot", only to pull the same type of stunt a month later. Without actual reform in place in the bylaws/rules/whathaveyou, it's just lip service.

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Re: SimEnc

I'll be amazed and impressed if Charles is able to find a way forwards that doesn't involve starting a new wiki, so you needn't worry. And even if he does (find a way forwards with SimEnc) it'll be only after he's secured a rigorous written agreement and changes to SimEnc's rules, board, etc., I'm confident of that. So it really is just a case of how much SimEnc are willing to give, at this stage, and whether that's enough.

Ash

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Re: SimEnc

I'm indifferent either way, actually. I'm just stating I can understand the reasons of those opposed to re-joining.

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